Oliver Badura was a co-founder of HAGER Executive Consulting in 1996, but left the company to pursue other career paths. Now he is back as COO. As the so-called “war for talent” continues worldwide, he reveals how to find and retain outstanding employees.
You co-founded HAGER Executive Consulting in 1996 and are back with the company after 15 years. What motivated you to return?
We never completely lost sight of each other. Sometimes you break up without arguing because you take a different path in life. The decision to come back was a process. There have been many discussions over the last few months. The management team at HAGER simply did a great job of persuasion. As you can see, they are excellent recruiters (laughs).
Thomas Sattelberger once said: “There is no guarantee of survival for companies. The average lifespan of a company is nine years.
Even HAGER could have ceased to exist a long, long time ago. The fact that things turned out differently has to do with the management. It’s great to see how the company is now flourishing and super successful. If I had to put it in a nutshell once again: the decisive factor for re-docking here is the potential that this large organization offers. We share similar ideas and visions. Executive search is just one of them. We have big plans. There are other projects we have in the pipeline, but I can’t talk about them yet.
You have been active as a consultant and coach in recent years. What insights have you gained from this?
I have come a long way. I was 25 years old when I founded the company, now I’m 49. One key insight is certainly that everyone only cooks with water and makes mistakes. But the most important thing is the knowledge that people are the central factor in everything. That’s why communication is so crucial. That sounds simple and perhaps trivial, but in reality it is a huge challenge. It also took me a while to internalize this. Interestingly, everyone struggles with this issue, whether it’s a large corporation or a five-man agency, everyone makes the same mistakes. The appreciation of employees is often neglected. Many problems arise from false expectations and the obsessive pursuit of perfection.
The world of work has changed dramatically. This has consequences for everyone involved. Let’s start with the applicants: What do they need to bring to the table to succeed?
It is always said that they have to have a digital mindset. That’s not wrong, but it’s not a distinguishing feature. Young people actually all have a digital mindset. Personality is therefore much more important, the so-called human skills. Which, by the way, I would definitely include listening. And that’s what we have to explore in discussions, that’s our job. Let’s assume you use AI-based software and the candidate has successfully mastered the course. And despite all the sophisticated analysis and questioning methods, the CEO doesn’t like him or her, the chemistry just isn’t right. Then it’s over. That’s why it’s ultimately about personality. And of course this is even more true the higher up you go in the hierarchy, which is the case with us in executive search. We have never made a placement where we completely missed the mark. What sets us apart from an AI is instinct. An example: you have a candidate who, by objective standards, doesn’t fit the job profile 100 percent. And then you hear a sentence, a comment, and suddenly you know: that’s it. You put him or her at the top of the list, the customer is delighted, happy ending. No AI can do that, at least not in our field. It may be different in other sectors and industries where there are huge amounts of data.
Interestingly, we are seeing an immense technological change in the HR sector; one of the latest unicorns, Personio, has just caused a stir here. For you in executive search, that doesn’t matter. But to what extent do platforms such as Xing or LinkedIn make your work easier?
Now you’re starting something (laughs). I’m a coach, I’ve trained people in personnel consulting. For all I care, you could turn off the internet tomorrow and I would still find people. To cut a long story short: the idea of recruitment consulting is to present the best candidate available on the market. And you can’t just find them on Xing or LinkedIn. What’s more, some professional groups are not represented at all. Marketing is more likely to be represented, HR too, an electrical engineer less so, and medical specialists almost never. To put this into perspective: Let’s take Xing as the market leader in German-speaking countries. Only 25 to 30 percent of the working population are registered there. The question is: What about the other 70 to 75 percent? How do I get in touch with them? And that is the craft, the know-how of a personnel consultant. That is our USP. And let’s assume that you actually find the person there who might be suitable for a position. What happens then? How do I contact them? Mail and pray or call?
And…?
Let’s assume you work at Siemens and I want to contact you. A good recruiter calls and puts you through.
What else makes a good recruiter?
Creativity! To think about it: Where do I get the people from? Especially in view of the “war for talent”, you have to think about new ways of recruiting from other sectors. This also requires curiosity and a talent for communication. That is essential. I would even say that you have to be a sales type to a certain extent. Not in the sense of a classic salesperson, of course. But you have to be able to inspire people and take them with you. You also need organizational talent. You need a clear plan, targets and defined processes. And you need a lot of empathy. You need to have a feel for people and their situation. That’s part of the matching process. If someone says: ‘I bought a house yesterday, my children are seven and go to school here. That’s why I don’t want to move from Hamburg to Munich. I don’t start persuading them and respect their decision. You must never forget: You have a lot of responsibility because the decision to take a job has consequences. In every respect, not just financially. It’s important not to forget that.
Let’s take a look at the generation of tomorrow. There are a lot of rumors circulating about them. How do you see Gen Z?
First of all, this cohort is excellently trained. I think this is often portrayed far too negatively. The people who are now coming out of universities, whether they have been educated in Germany or internationally, are top professionals. What I sometimes miss is the idea of performance. Despite all the new work and hopefully respectful interaction and a good working atmosphere, ambition and ambition are essential in business. I find it irritating when students start talking about a work-life balance. I can still remember myself when I was that age. You worked hard and got stuck in. I miss that a bit today. Talents from other countries are hungrier. I take a critical view of that.
How should companies respond to the glaring shortage of skilled workers? Companies in the digital sector in particular are searching for employees at full speed, the “war for talent” is in full swing…
First of all, the fundamental attitude has to change, along the lines of: you can be glad that you work here. That’s old-fashioned, outdated and no longer relevant. You don’t attract people like that, and certainly not good ones. This false self-image is often compounded by poor training of managers. Basically, it is a sales task. The credo must be: I apply to the applicant. You have to make an effort for him or her. And this is where we still see major deficits, regardless of the size of the company. If you’re a small or medium-sized company competing against the big tankers, you have to get creative and offer talented people real added value. I can’t just complain all the time. I have to do something to make people want to work for me. And as long as that doesn’t happen, it’s a constant competition for the best minds. That has a lot to do with the famous mindset. As a company, I also have to develop culturally and remain open. In the same way, I have to constantly educate and train my employees and offer them development opportunities. This is not a short-term measure, but should be long-term. And then word gets around. However, it’s not enough to just give speeches and talk about the “big orchestra” where “all the voices mesh”. I really can’t listen to that anymore.
What other misunderstandings are there?
The simple math is not understood. Let’s assume he demands: We need to make more sales. He is frustrated because it simply isn’t working. But if there are incompetent employees, how are they supposed to make more sales? In other words: If I only hire top people, then I will also make more turnover. It’s as simple as that. The solution lies in recruiting the right staff. It’s that simple. So difficult – for some at least.
This also requires a certain degree of sovereignty. The old saying applies: ‘A’s hire A’s and B’s hire C’s’.
That’s true. I’m always looking for people who are better than me. My added value is: I have an overview, I’m the steering and control committee. It’s a dream when you only work with top people!
The biggest no-gos when recruiting:
Disrespect And Arrogance: It’s 2021 And We Are In A ‘War For Talents’. This means: The company applies to the applicant. They are not supplicants. Period.
Poor preparation for the interview: Just as you expect the other person to have informed themselves about the company, you need to have a concept when you go into the interview. And, of course, know who is sitting opposite you.
Unclear communication and lack of transparency: If applicants leave the interview not knowing or not having the courage to ask how the process is going and what the next steps are – very bad.
Processes that are too long: Yes, recruiting employees is not a decision that you make on the spur of the moment. But ten interviews and endless internal coordination loops are not effective. Want to bet that the super talent has already signed with the next company by then?